TURN A MOUSE INTO A LION by Ravi Shankar (Hudson Valley, May 2004)
Its hard to imagine my ever being very courageous. In fact most of the time I feel like a mouse. Can the qualities of love and meditation turn even a mouse into a Buddha?
Certainly. This knowledge will turn mud into gold, mouse into a lion. You know a child saw a cartoon or some picture that someone with a beard and hair came and turned somebody into a frog. So when that family came here yesterday, the child saw me and started crying thinking that. (mad laughter) And the boy said to the dad ‘dad he’s going to turn me into a frog I don’t want to go near’. (more laughter) A Buddha is present even inside a mouse. The nature of Buddha is everywhere. So definitely it can blossom.

My dearest guruji, can you please talk about self effort and effortlessness? How can you move into one from another?
Very simple. Coming to the hall is your effort, and when you come and sit here its all effortless. (laughter) You don’t have to do anything. But to reach here you have to make some effort to come. Got it? Got it! See its your effort to open the windows but the breeze comes by itself, light comes by itself. Air comes by itself. Similarly when you have been here, effortlessly you get so much energy and then you go out and put your effort. And do what you need to do. When you’re acting put 100% effort. And when you’re resting, totally let go. Life is combination of both. Hmmmm? That is where most people miss the point. Either they keep putting effort all the time, or they’ll be so lazy and don’t put any effort at all. No life is a combination of day and night, sleep and activity, effort and effortlessness.

The whole universe is going to end, we are all going to die so what does it matter whether we do all this or not? Why you spend all your time and energy helping others?
My dear. If you ask the clouds, why do you rain? And ask the sun, why do you shine? Ask the river, why do you flow? What it would say? Its my nature. Someone asked me, what is your motivation? What motivates you to do all this? I said you need motivation if something is not in your nature. Motivation is short lived because it is an external stimuli. An imposed activity. Sun does not shine because it is imposed activity. It shines because it is its nature. It cant but shine! You get sick and tired when you go out of your nature. Or when you don’t know your nature. So you do everything by your nature then there is not problem. So helping is your nature, you cant but help. Whether the world lives for one day or one millennium, it does not matter. That time and space does not matter for you to express your own nature. Got it?

Why is it I don’t cry, even when someone very close dies in the family? I lost my dad last week but I didn’t shed a tear yet. Am I stone hearted?
Don’t judge yourself. You didn’t cry, you didn’t cry, that’s it. Doesn’t matter. Maybe you’re aware of the knowledge that everybodys going to die anyway. Somewhere it didn’t strike a cord. Maybe sometime when you feel grateful you may get some tears. Or you may just feel peace. There could be many reasons. Sometimes there are particular nadis in the system, when they open up only, you start crying. If they don’t open up you don’t cry. Not that you’re stone hearted, your bad. Not at all. That’s what happens in the Kriya also, you know sometimes people start crying and laughing. Doesn’t need to happen to everybody, for someone it happens, someone it doesn’t. Both are ok.

I really like the practice of meditation. And it bothers me that people seem to worship the guru. Can you explain the purpose/way of thinking about a guru?
You know, it’s a cultural thing. People come and touch their feet and bow down. If you go to Japan, they bow down half. If you go to India (guruji laughs) they bow down full. (laughter) (Paras note: Think they’re laughing about guruji’s joke. He always says ‘don’t bow down to me, you might miss the blessing) It has become a habit. Whenever they see any elderly person. Grandfather comes home, its duty for everybody to bow down. Grandmother, mother, family, any saint comes, anyone comes! It has become a habit. They even do to politicians. (laughter) They’ll see many states people, just go and bow down. To politicians. It is a cultural thing. And I’ve been telling people many times no no. People listen to me for a few minutes then they go to do their own. It’s a habit. I mean you should see in India sometimes it is very difficult. There were many police also, who were trying to control the crowd and everything. The policeman holds the crowd back and I get into the car. They forget they are policemen. And a policeman starts bowing down. (crazy laughter) And if the policeman starts bowing down, you can imagine what happens to the crowd in the back, they fall on top of them. (still crazy laughter) Recently it happened, once I was getting in the car and the policeman was very angry with the crowd trying to hold them back. But then when he saw me, he did the pranam. What happened, his hat flew on one side, his stick on the other side, and he hardly could get up. (still crazy laughter) And gather his stuff. And he turned back and was angry at the devotees. (even more laughter) And that was a scene I tell you. One minute he was angry at them and then he looked and me he starts smiling… please bless me. (crazy mad hysterical laughter and applause) I tell you it’s a big comedy show. (laughter)

The way our volunteers behave in our big satsangs and big gatherings in India. They’ll hold/form a chain, and then say move move move. They’re looking at me and shouting move move. Sometimes when they look back… there is nobody behind you! (Guruji laughs, everyone goes nuts laughing) Coz there are already… its all quadran’d off. And they are holding their hands and moving. When people are in love the way they express their love and gratitude, has no rules, has no regulations, has no limits. I have never said to anybody anytime, bow down, fall at my feet. (Guruji laughs) Absolutely not, but it’s a cultural thing, even in Taiwan, in China, other places, it will just happen. People will just… that’s the way to greet. They never shake hands, they do this or touch the feet. And we have all grown up doing that, as soon as, in the morning, first thing you have to touch the feet of the mother. Go and bow down to mother and father. If you had a fight with her, then also, because of the habit. HUH! I’m going to bow down. (Guruji laughs, everybody laughs) And she’ll say Huh! No use in bowing down, you don’t listen to me. (Guruji/everybody laughs) Of course in the west it looks little appalling to people, oh what are they doing. Coz its not in the cultural tradition. Same in the east when they see people kissing each other. So there are different cultural differences in different places.

In come villages, in some towns, small towns in India, if you go as a guest, they worship you. They wash your feet, every guest is called God. Say, god my dear god, oh please come god. They’ll worship every guest as a god. And they put the plate and they feed you food and give you… whatever they have… first feed you and they ask you what can I do for you? My god? Their address is like that ‘what can I do for you my god?’ Very innocent people so pure in their heart and they have no fear you know? Guest are welcomed in terms of god. Said where does god reside? Say in the mother, in the father, in the teacher and in the guest. And treat all of them as the messenger of the divine. This is the first lesson a child gets, learn from your mother, learn from your father, learn from the teacher, learn to honour everybody. And then honour the environment, honour the trees. If you want to cut a tree, first you have to take permission from the tree. They say ‘I have to cut you. Pardon me but I’m going to plan 5 saplings of your family’ Then they used to cut the tree. The same practices are present in all aboriginal people all around the world. To some extent they also do this, when you cut a tree they have to take permission. They are best conservators of nature. They preserve the nature. If you see the aboriginals in North America, or in Australia, New Zealand, some parts of India. They all have similar traditions and cultures, they do same things. Honour the nature. Honour the mountains. Honour the rivers. So you don’t exploit the nature, but make use of it with gratitude. It simply shows that fullness of the heart.

At a particular festival in India all the instruments are honoured or worshipped. You know scissors, knives, scooters, cars and busses and trucks, lorries, everything. Coz say, you have been of great help to me all the year, so I honour you. You know? Sense of honouring. Suddenly the whole universe becomes alive and full of life. You don’t see it as a dead object. You have an emotional feeling, an attachment. You know it happens automatically, naturally. I heard that in California a couple got divorced and then the whole fight was about… they went to court… about the chair they have been using for the past 40 years. The man used to use the chair for 40 years and he was so attached to the chair, he could let go of his wife but not the chair. (laughter) And the chair belonged to his wife, so she went to court for the chair. You start respecting, honouring, having a sense of attachment to objects around you. Giving it a little more authenticity, validity. Making it little more sacred, knowing that all these things in the universe is worth honouring. Knowing that it all belongs to god. It all belongs to that one creator. Is the method of ancient rishis, way of the ancient people.

Today many teachers and professors in the college are so tired, so depressed, because the children don’t honour them. When they don’t honour their guide, they don’t honour and respect their teachers, how are they going to learn from them? The indiscipline has found its peak. Because they don’t honour, they don’t respect anything! Anything for that matter. If god has made us, then god has also given us them mind. The thoughts are given by god. Everything is given by god then you have nothing to worry about. (laughter) If worry comes even, god is worrying you’re not worrying. (laughter) Sometimes you know we say ‘if god wants he will do it’, ‘god does everything but I suffer’. This will not work. If goes does everything and if suffering comes, he’s suffering also, you know. Oh god gave me this thought to eat more, but now I have a tummy ache. (laughter) You have the tummy ache, let god have the tummy ache. (laughter) You see, when you’re not the doer you’re not also the sufferer or the enjoyer of it. That’s a higher knowledge. To know that I’m not doer, its not a concept, it is an experience. Whenever you have done something very important or achieved something great, you’ll suddenly feel, oh I didn’t do it, it just happened. And same thing when you ask a hardened criminal in the prison, did you do it? He’ll say no. I don’t know how it happened, just happened.

Tell you something about secret and sacred. You know when you consider something sacred, what happens? You become totally alert. Coz you say this is a secret message. How I will take it? Your total attention and love and everything is there, when you consider something sacred. It’s a sacred thing, sacred book. You take it with both hands. The way you handle something sacred suddenly changes everything. And what is the advantage of it. The advantage is… it makes your brain alert. You mind alert. Its like a spark has suddenly become a flame. That spark that is in you suddenly becomes like a flame. Sacred… suddenly everything wakes up, from the slumber. Right? Same thing with secret.

Say, ‘I want to tell you a secret’.
‘Huh?’ (laughter) Wake up ‘Huh?!’
Suddenly you become so alert. (Guruji whispers) ‘I want to tell you a secret’…
‘Huh… tell me, tell me!’
‘I’ll tell you tomorrow’
‘No no tell me now!’. (laughter/applause)
‘Maybe I’ll tell you later’
‘No no why later, tell me now’ (laughter) (Paras note: LMAO Guruji is such a cartoon)
See you become so awake now ‘Tell me, tell me’.

Anything that’s a secret/is sacred suddenly enlivens you. Takes you deeper into awakening. That’s why the mantras that you are given, you know Sahaj mantras and all. Say keep it secret. It’s the same mantra (Paras note: Oh no he didn’t). But secret. (everyone goes nuts/laughter) So secret. Tell nobody. (extra mad laughter and applause). Shhhhh. Something precious. Coz something precious makes you so alive. Sacred and secret makes you so alive. You know its amazing how this ancient yogis and rishis had such a brilliant mind. They knew how the mind works. That’s why they gave a mantra into somebody’s ears. Shhhhh don’t tell anybody. (laughter) Keep it within you. (laughter) You go, ohhh I have something. So valuable nobody else has it. (laughter) You know, that enriches the whole consciousness. Brings that aliveness, its done at a small age. When somebody is 8 year old, 9 years old, each boy has got it. Shhhhh. Make a huge celebration for their initiation day. It’ll be all bangs and all food and relatives, everybody has come. The boys, then they take a shawl and put it on the head of the boy and the teacher will go whisper in the ear… secret mantra just for you. Hmmm?

We need to learn to honour our life, honouring ones life is meditation. Got it? Sit and honour your body. Honour your breath, honour your mind, honour the life in general. And see how meditation starts happening.

Some here believe that you are god. Do you encourage this belief. You have said that anything we see in you also exists in our self. That we should not put you in different category. How do you resolve this with the idea people have that you are god, a prophet or another incarnation of Jesus. Is not god in another category?
Some believe that you are god. They should know that I am god, no need of believing. (laughter/applause) There is nothing that can exist outside god, my dear, I tell you. If god is love, what you think you are made up of? We are all god, we are all made up of love. Certainly. I don’t encourage belief. I encourage everyone to know. You know yourself, then you will be able to know me. If you don’t know yourself, you cant know me. What is this personality, you and me’s. Is just a false idea. The subtler we go, there is no two. Can you say this is my air? This is my breath. No, the air that goes through your nose, goes into that persons nose, that persons nose, that person… Its like 2 magnetic compasses saying, my magnetic field, my magnetic field. Of course both indicate the same magnetic field. But the field is one. Similarly consciousness is only one. This little intellect, mind, they’re all layers. You have to surpass the layer then see who am I? Who you really are, that’s what I am. What I am is what you are. There are no persons at all in this planet. Its one ocean. If there’s two ocean then fish say my ocean, my life, my ocean, my life. Different bodies are exhibiting different intellect, that’s all. But the life is in the water. Do you get it? Subtler we go, there is no two, there is no difference. On the body level, yes your body is different, my bodys different. On the level of breath, no its one. Mind, even closer. Refinement! We go on the atomic level, its all one. The word atom comes from that athma, means the ultimate. The self. You think you exist that’s the problem, I know, there is nobody in here. (laughter) Hollow and empty. That is how all the prophets in the world who have been on this planet are expression of one consciousness. You know it’s the same sun that come through this window, that window or that window or that window in the morning, afternoon, evening, its all very different. Winter sun is different from spring, its different from summer, yet it’s the same sun. Are you with me? Are you understanding what I’m saying? So there is no need of having two categories. Wake up and see. All these categories are all ignorance. Childishness.

Is marriage and companionship essential for a complete life experience?
I don’t know. (laughter) Maybe in one of the lives, should be enough. (guruji laughs) Its not necessary that you have to experience everything in life. When your intellect is sharp enough. All other experience in the world becomes part of your own experience. It depends on your sensitivity, how much sensitive you are. You feel you’ve already experienced all that. And wider and vaster your exposure to the consciousness, your understanding of consciousness. You’ll see you are filled with billions of experiences. Billions of experiences.

How to become egoless or reduce the ego?
Just don’t worry. If you feel that you have an ego, just keep it there. Keep it in the pocket. Don’t try to reduce it, because that becomes a big ego. Look, I have reduced my ego. (laughter) Nobody could do it, I did it. (laughter) What did I do, I reduced my ego. (laughter) Ego seems to be hindering with all tasks. It is its job, let it do it. (laughter) If you had a dog and it wags its tail, its not its fault, let it be. (laughter) So what let it be. The way to deal with ego is let it be, so what. Ignoring it. You know if somebody is egoistic, how to handle them is to ignore their ego. Ignore their existence. (guruji laughs) You’ll see that he will feel that. Same way with you, you feel you have an ego, just ignore your own ego. Just move on. Agree to be fool for one day. Agree to be crazy just for one day. You will see how your ego has flown out of the window. Never mind, its not a big issue. You see what I’m saying? Hmmm? Well if it pinches or it pains, you know how to get rid of it. So-hum, so what. We have two weapons with us, one is? So what. Another is so-hum, so-hum, so-hum. All washed.

What is enlightenment, is it for everybody?
Yes. Enlightenment is just being in your nature. Becoming a child again. Becoming so strong from within. Nobody can shake your smile and peace… love that you are.

What is the shortest and fastest way to merge with guruji consciousness?
See guru consciousness is what? A consciousness which is vast, big. Is compassionate, full of love and wisdom. Its either called guru consciousness or Buddha nature. Everyone has? A Buddha nature within oneself. Similarly guru consciousness is the big mind within you. Hmmm. And by meditation, by service, being loving and compassionate and wise, you are that. Now when you start taking responsibility for everyone. Loving everyone as yours and part of you, and help and guide people around you. That consciousness is coming already in you. Ya? Nothing can disturb you and you know for sure. That is a/you’re dawning into that consciousness. When someone stands and just blames you. Shouts at you and you’re just there smiling, nothing is bothering you. You feel rather compassion, rather than anger. Then that consciousness is already dawning. Hmmm?

How do you have and maintain hope when the world is filled with so much pain? In the light of Iraqi prisoners abuse and people treat each other so terribly?
You know that’s why we need to be very active. Now at the present time, there is a course happening in the Bombay prison. 25 hardcore Islamic terrorists, Jihadis made a series of bomb blasts in Bombay. Killing 100s and 100s of people. Now the course is happening there. You know first day they were like this. Second day they opened up. You know transformation is now happening in them. See, nobody taught them human values. We need to teach people spirituality, human values. Hmmm? Otherwise such things continue to happen in the world. Like you teach people alphabets. You have to teach them, before they learn alphabets, you have to teach them how to behave with each other. Its all because of hatred and stress. And we have not taught anyone how to get rid of hatred. We have a big task and you’re all part of that task. Remember. (guruji laughs) Ya? (applause) You all have responsibility. Each one of you have the responsibility in you to bring that education, to bring that compassion and love in the world. Think this is your prime thing (?), before you depart from the world. You should (?) seeds of love and seeds of harmony. As much as possible. This should be your goal. What d’you think? Correct? (applause) We need to bring the healing touch. And all of us should work to bring that healing.

Why do we always sit on the floor instead of on a chair during meditation or Sudarshan Kriya?
You can sit on chair. Some people do sit on the chair. For Kriya its better you sit, so that you can lie down anytime that you want. (Guruji laughs/laughter) You know on chair maybe you feel little insecure, maybe I will fall down. (laughter) When you’re already on the ground you don’t worry about falling off. Can easily let go. But you can sit on a sofa, but sofas occupy a lot of space, we need double the space. See chairs are a little unstable. But choice is yours. Want to sit on the chair you’re most welcome. In fact it is better, some of you think you have to sit on the floor and sit on your backs and knees are paining and your legs are going to sleep and you’re unable to meditate. I tell you it is not necessary to torture yourself so much. (laughter) You better get up and sit in a chair comfortably. At least where you can let go. You know. How you should sit for meditation? (something sukham asan) Means you should be comfortable and should be steady. Not you change your position every 2 minutes. Ok? It should be comfortable and? Steady. Ok? Good good good good good.

How do you know if a thought or impulse to take action is a desire or just nature moving you to a positive direction? If desires take you away from the self, how do you know if it is for the right action?
See you want to go to New York and you just sit in the car and you go to New York, that’s is. That one thought takes you to New York. This is intention. Desire is. I want to go to New York! I want to go to New York! I want to go to New York! I want to go to New York! That bugs you, you got into that feverishness! I want to go to New York! I want to go to New York! (laughter) When you go here and there, you run around, ten times in and out of the room and bathrooms and… (mad laughter) Back and forth and you get into the car and I want to go to New York, New York… you wind up into a mental hospital. (hahaha crazy laughter) You may not get to New York. All our actions happen through intention. Desire is that feverishness that grips your mind. Doesn’t let you have peace. Or doesn’t give you sense of comfort. But sometimes they come, what do you do? Now you should not say, oh I should not get desire, I should not get desire, I should not get desire, I should not get desire! (laughter) That has become another desire. (more laughter) Its like you got up from one well and fell in the other. (laughter) So when desires have come, they have come, ok just observe them, watch them, let them be, so what. Don’t fight with the desires, I don’t want it, push it away. Its like a ping pong, the more you throw it, faster it bounces back. You know, so just walk in life so light. Don’t take things too seriously. The smile and lightness. All the events come and go. Ok, this is one such.

In the desire, there are 3 types of desire. One is a desire is coming inside you because you have had that experience before. You have smoked cigarette, so that, because you have smoked several times, made into a habit. That desire comes up in you to smoke again. So you are very fond of apple pie, how could you be fond of apple pie if you had not experienced it? You experienced it several times so you become fond of it. So you want to do it again. First type of desire is propelled by your experiences. The second type of desire is because someone has that desire and it has clogged on to you. Some other persons desire has clogged on to your head. Coz of their desire you start doing. How many of you have had experienced this. Was not your desire to begin with, its from someone else’s desire and so you started behaving (?) because of their desire. The third type of desire is a mixture of these two. One is purely your desire, another is purely the other persons desire, the third is a mixture. Hmmm? Sometimes this is not so clear it is a mixture. Sometimes it is because of some karma. Something has to happen out of it so some karma, karmic desires. Suppose this particular thing had to happen in a place in such a way, suddenly that thought will come into you and make you do that action. That is karmic, its called karmic. So the three types. They come, you don’t know which is what many times. The best thing is just move on, they come and go. The more and more we go in clarity, you will see that they all just disappear.

See one of our Art of Living volunteers in Virginia, a doctor there. He kept mailing Bush everyday. That you must meet Sri Sri. The last 40 days, he said everyday he kept sending email. And he got a reply also there. (Guruji laughs) Something, some… I don’t know what reply was. He got some reply, from then he kept sending… you must meet Sri Sri, you must meet Sri Sri. Art of Living is doing some work in Iraq and all. You know. How those things manifest, many people asked me in California here and there. You should meet our president and tell him… whatever. (Guruji laughs) You know. And Dr. Balister wrote come, he said Guruji this time you ought to come, my desire is that you should meet our president, you should go to white house. He said, this time we have just put our toe, next time we will put our feet, and you’re third visit you’ll go to white house. You’ll be welcomed there. That was a small desire of his. Means what he wanted me, welcomed in the white house. That was his desire. I just smiled at him. This was the previous night. This is what he said after we had a reception in the congress. In the capital hill. Next morning, I didn’t have to first keep a toe and then the foot (guruji/everyone laughs) and then the whole body. Next morning everything happened in two hours. (guruji laughs) In two hours they said, White House there is a program we would like to invite you, can you come? I had a program in NASA. Said, ok after NASA immediately I will come and went. I was received. See the sankalpa of so many people, putting that sankalpa happened. We had no plan, we had no agenda, doing that sort of thing.

What I’m saying is this, the desire. The intention you put in a direction and it gets fortified in that calm and serene state of mind. In a feverish state of mind, you’re just clogged with that desire, nothing works. That’s why devotion works, why devotion works? How devotion works is so scientific. Coz when you are in love, when you are in devotion. Mind is in such a calm serene state. Then just that one intention. You don’t have any desire, even someone else has a desire that will work out. (guruji laughs) Do you see what I’m saying? The mechanics. I told Dr. B don’t worry, what is big thing about it? So what, its nothing great. What’s a big thing, one more desire fulfilled, so what. Its not a big deal. (guruji laughs) and it didn’t take 3 years for me to come in just happened in half a day. Do you see what I’m saying. Look at the science behind thought, that’s why if you think someone is bad, someone is hopeless, hopeless, hopeless. When you think like that all the time, even though they may be hopeless they’ll surely become hopeless. You have to from your side, put that positive sankalpa. Positive thought, it’ll work, things will happen. You know whenever we start a project, we don’t first collect money and then start a project. (guruji laughs) We do the other way around, unlike any corporation in the world who first budget and then start a program. In Art of Living we just start a program and then the money comes. People cannot understand how this could work. Do you see what I’m saying? You need to believe in yourself much more than you think you are. Have belief, faith in yourself. Your dreams, your ideas, your thoughts can find manifestation. At the right time, if it is right. Ya? That doesn’t mean you should be simply airy fairy, simply dreaming the whole day. No do anything physical and concrete. You have to have that balance in life. A dance can happen when there is balance between the dreams and practicality. Correct? Ok? (Guruji starts singing, everybody laughs and joins)